I have opened this new topic for discussion. Where do we go from here?
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I mean do we really need a leader? In terms of having names and logo and whatnot there are a couple leaders in the forums here making the topics and the polls and whatnot about the stuff that mattersā¦does a hub need anything else? Thereās no in-game problems that having or not having a leader can really solve. This isnāt the type of game where having or not having a leader makes much of any impact as far as I can tell. Ultimately any guidance for in game stuff will still mainly happen through the forumsā¦no more than a handful of people will be together at any given time so stuff like naming protocols and whatever still happen through forums and to a lot of people the hubs will still be just go to x coordinates and see whoās around and communicate to people through the game networks or theyāll come here and say hey who wants to play here are my coordinates.
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True. However, even the logo voting has lost the person who organized it. We do need an organizer.
Someone who likes to organize is needed.
The person who organized the logo vote has pulled out.
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As it stands now, the current winner was voted in with the intention of being upgraded to this:
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The ETARC Hub was never intended to have a leader. As I have said before, at the moment, itās a place, not an organisation.
Any disagreement at the moment surrounds the choice of logo, not the hub.
The idea of a logo stems from an original suggestion by @Dolnor, back in August 2017.
As you can see, thereās no mention of the hub. The logo was originally intended for ETARC CSD, not for the hub.
Discussion of the logo went round and round - and fizzled out for a long time, because nobody would make a decision.
Itās recently been revived, and has now become something of a bone of contention. People are falling out over it.
To sum up the issues, there are essentially two camps:
One group holds that this has been going on for more than a year, and weāre no nearer a decision than we were at the start. Somebody needs to say āThatās it - a decision has been madeā. But as soon as such a decision was made, people started disagreeing with it, and coming up with new suggestions.
The other group believes that everything should be open, democratic, and subject to popular vote. But no-one in that group is prepared to enforce the results of such a vote. So the polling and voting and discussion just goes round and round in circles for ever.
The result is that some of the people who were the drivers behind this have just given up and walked away.
And I canāt say I blame them. Herding cats would be a lot easier.
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So the current winner is above. I like it. Whatever it represents, my understanding is that it would be used in a new thread specifically for guiding new players to the Hub. Is this still the idea?
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This whole logo and discussion has me wonderingā¦where exactly would this logo even be displayed? Would it be at the head of every topic related to hub? Would some people choose to use it as their profile picture? I mean one thing is for certainā¦we definitely wonāt be seeing it in gameā¦you know in the actual hubs. I have been vocal about liking or not liking some of the voting options but really is this even something that anyone should be upset over?
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Personally, I think itās fine. I could have lived with most of them, but this one will do. Itās certainly not worth disrupting the forum over.
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True. As stated, I believe the purpose is simply for a thread that will:
- explain ETARC meaning
- lay out expected behavior in the Hub
- instructions on how to get to the Hub
and anything else that may become needed. That way we donāt have to answer the same questions over and over, as there will be many when NEXT hits.
I move to declare the above logo as The Winner so we can move on.
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Seconded, it incorporates many of the others and would make a fine choice.
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If you could include the above mentioned things in your Intro to the forum, that would complete what is needed. Letās make a decision
- include intro to forum and Hub in the same thread
- have Intro link to a thread about the Hub
We could use the logo in 1 or both
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Okay. Update. Our history and intro to the forum and the hub are being written and the above winning logo will be used. We are finally progressing everyone! Rejoice and letās enjoy the day! 
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On the leadership issueā¦ while it is true that there is no formal nor operational need for a leader, having some sort of structure within a hub helps to move community issues forward, such as this logotype discussion.
In the previous hub I was a member of, it all boiled down to personal commitment and passion (as it should be), creating informal roles such as one person being in charge of their YT channel, one contact person being listed on NMS wiki pages, one person having a base claimed at a hub capital.
As has been pointed out, there is no need for a leader within thes fora. Weāre not a company with a pre-defined internal command structure. But for any official communications, it is certainly helpful to have someone that people know how to contact, that can delegate issuesā¦ so I like @sheralmystās call for discussion in this matter!
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Weāve had a lot of neat ideas and interest to do a lot of things but we never seemed to have enough people involved to actually do that much. We had big plans to go through the galaxies and set up bases and travel routes and all but thereās just not many of us out in deep space. I think we have the interest but just not enough people yet actively involved. And to be honest, we get sidetracked just playing and enjoying the game. I know thatās it for me. I donāt want to feel obligated to have to do something. Itās why I enjoy NMS so much. You arenāt forced to do anything but you can do everything!
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So hopefully, with the Intros being written, this will all work out. Basically, we just give instructions and info to newcomers. Any questions and issues can be raised here in the forum with the new threads that will be set up. Anyone with knowledge can give answers to most of the questions that will come up. For anything weightier, it can simply be brought to attention and we can come to an answer that will work best for all. As long as we have active members here, then all questions should get resolved. We donāt know what will come with NEXT so we will have to make adjustments as we move forward. Letās just keep a positive attitude everyone and this will work out.
Please continue to leave suggestions.
Any who may wonder about āclosed door meetingsā : the only one active atm has to do with the Intros that are being written, so please, donāt feel anyone is being left out.
I might add at this point, higher ups are putting in requests for changes with NEXT. So keep this in mind moving forward.
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I think itād be great if it ended up anything like the Help a fellow Traveller thread. People ask questions or raise issues and whoever is around and willing to help tends to drop some knowledge in a very courteous manner 
thatās the model of hub discussion and direction Iād love to see and I know itās what weāre aiming for so, letās do this Interlopers
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I believe this is the general idea. It has worked well in that thread and it is a thread that will continue with the changes that will hopefully be coming.
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What I like about the Help a Fellow Traveller thread is that you can ask a question and not feel silly or get flamed for asking it.
That is a rare quality these days on the internet. (Redditors would just downvote youā¦)
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Yes. Very important point. We want people to feel free to ask noobie questions. We were all there once upon a time. 
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Let me try explain what happened in regards to the voting for a logo. I will try keep it short though.
The below describes it best:
First off, I am not a member of the Hub, but I have been present in the private discussion group merely due to my role as a leader on the forum. Occasionally I shared my thoughts, as I have when it comes to deciding on a logo.
The above is exactly what happened once again. They wanted someone who carries āweightā to finally get this sorted. I offered my help, suggested what needed to be done. I made it clear that I was actually not willing to be the one to do this, as I am busy enough as it is. In the end, after clearly discussing the plan and being generally agreed upon, it was more or less left to me to take action.
So I did and the same soon happened as had happened before. A decision was made, agreed on, to then see some change their mind along the way again, not sticking to the plan. I then left, earlier today, explaining my reasoning.
This has nothing to do with those who have been working on some wonderful designs. It has nothing to do with submitting designs when the poll was already made available. Not sure if it was the best idea to show new designs, influencing the voting, but I am sure that has never been the intention. It had everything to do with the inability to stick to a decision, generally decided on within the Hub.
There is no reason for any drama, it just clearly shows where improvements can be made. I tried, stuck out my neck in an attempt to help out, to then get disappointed. I have pointed out the āissueā, including having private discussion. Just let this be a lesson to try do better a next timeā¦ which I am sure you can
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