Controversy Dreamer Extraction July 20


#1

When the survey came out a few days ago, a lot of people (myself included) reacted strongly on how we seemingly got “to choose” between people living or dying, and there was a lot of heated debate about this on many different fora. As a prep for what’s about to go down, I just thought I’d share a discussion by fellow youtuber DM21 Gamin - who is an obnoxious opinionated walrus that nevertheless have some interesting takes on the matter. What do you think about this? Maybe it’s not about choosing who “gets to live” at all…


#2

As I said in another topic, I always thought about priorities for the rescue team but not a brutal choice like “we can’t save all, only 9 of them, who will you choose ?”. So what DM21 said is right in my opinion, it’s more “in what order will you try to save the dreamers ?” like any rescue team have to deal with.


#3

to continue on what you’re saying I really liked two things he mentioned

  • the suyrvey is not about the dreamers, it’s about you, i.e. asking you to know how you prioritise and what morals you stand for and defend
  • comparison with Armageddon movie and IRL Titanic disaster - who gets saved first? How do we choose?

#4

First off, I have not listened to the above video (have to conserve internet, forces me to be choosy)
My thought is this: some of the dreamers still have scrambled DNA. If it remains that way, obviously, they will not survive. For me personally, I am looking at their physical condition. It has nothing to do with their personalities etc…my approach

  1. save the ones who are healthy and ready for extraction
  2. then evaluate who is nearest being ready for a possible successful extraction.
    This way you save as many as possible when working under constraints like time. The healthiest first because they can be extracted quickly. Then decisions have to be made on conditions of the remaining Dreamers.
    This is common practice in an emergency.
    Never base decisions on personality, race, etc…

#5

The important parameter is the time. Will we have enough time ou will we be in a hurry ? In the second case, it’s not necessarily child/woman first but the ones who can “walk/run”, who are fast enough to not slow down the rescue.
As @sheralmyst said, some dreamers stil have corrupted datas, these dreamers can need more time to be saved so if I had to choose between a healthy old man and a corrupted young women, i’ll save the old man first.


#6

DM21 Gaming’s line of thought is very similar to yours, i.e. adapting a method for making priorites, even though his list goes
(1) age
(2) gender
(3) health

… oops, yes - gender is there…


#7

no…just no…priority is based on condition of the dreamer…:scream:


#8

… and hence the controversy… for me, personally, it’s all about what I as an individual think or feel what is correct, what the collective should think or feel is correct - and then what the collective actually will do…

do we need an apriori consensus? can this even be accomplished?


#9

Yes. This is my concern as well. We need a plan of action. If the healthiest are pulled out first, we will have more time to deal with the more difficult cases and will therefore, make the best use of the time we have and save the most dreamers. If time is spent trying to save a corrupted 5 yr old because he has his whole life ahead of him, then we loose people who could have been more easily saved.
It really is common sense.
The goal is to save as many as possible.


#10

It’s hard to plan without knowing the parameters they toss at us, but I agree the goal should be to extract as many as possible - irregardless of age or gender or w/e


#11

Yes. We just assume time will be a factor. A plan of priority will help us regardless of the parameters. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. Yesterday was so much fun.


#12

Is that THE goal, or is that your goal?


#13

Well, that depends on wether you care about the lives of others. If you do then, yes, that should be everyone’s goal. If you do not care about lives and only care about certain types of individuals, then yes, your goal will be different.


#14

Well you may know my stance on this, as I went on a bout of temporary insanity when we got that email. Thankfully, kind messages from several people helped me snap out of it, but I still don’t like thought experiments that ask people to weigh the value of different human lives.


#15

What if the data of a corrupted dreamer leads to the saving of billions?


#16

Where does that idea come from? That obviously could change things. Like has been stated, we do not know the parameters we will have to work under. It will be interesting to see what happens.


#17

@MacForADay yes we read and saw your reactions and my thoughts have been with you, gosh that shxx can’t be easy…

Might I add a somewhat different flair to all of this: the mysterious entity 2311… the corrupted one that we know nothing about. DM21 has some interesting points on the matter, in which he was both the first and the last to enter the simulation, re-entering in order to save the others, at which point the traveller starts his/her own journey inside NMS…

And I def do want to stress that this is not about choosing “who gets to live”, it’s only about knowing how we go about in saving these people. So if you’re getting harsh or on the fence you needn’t worry if you ask me, it boils down to common sense in the end.

And it won’t be intellectual/moral - I have a hunch it’ll be rather practical, for example through having to play the game and report back from comm stations for example. Come to think of it, Are the dreamers playing NMS?


#18

I have wondered if they are in NMS as well. It would make sense as we can tell they are wearing the very suits we will wear in the sim…I have even wondered if we are not actually moving them from a sim that they know they are in, into a sim they will not think is a sim, like we did for Artemis in the story line…at this point, I honestly have no idea what we are walking into.


#19

The clock is back up on the live stream - get ready, brush up on those dreamer profiles.


#20

Here is the link to the Dreamers Google Doc,