Bases - Terrain Edit limit / Render Count issues

Decided to organise the “TerrainEdits” data I have so far from the save file. It does not seem to be much, but might be useful to some. There certainly is some logic to it, but I may need to dive into the source code to actually fully figure it out. Not sure I want to …

“GalacticAddresses”

  • Seems logical, although some entries have a different format, either decimal, or Hex (0x prefix)
  • Hex may be used for actual bases, while decimal is used for regions/sectors?
  • Easy to verify elsewhere in save data
  • 256 entries total (indexed)

“BufferSizes”

  • Amount of ‘Data’ values stored per indexed ‘GalacticAdress’
  • 256 entries total (indexed)

“BufferAges”

  • Unclear how this works, but assuming some value for edit age
  • Values range from -128 to 127 per index, no duplicates it seems?
  • New save starts conveniently at 0 to 127, then switch to -128 to -1
  • Large save shows these being shuffled all over the place.
  • New entries appear to be based on location, chunked somehow?
  • 256 entries total (indexed)

“BufferAnchors”

  • I have to assume planetary coordinates here, X, Y, and Z?
  • Quite high value for height (Y) though, but might be calculated from core.
  • Does not appear to be an offset from existing spot like Base Computer is used as origin for building parts.
  • 256 entries total (indexed)

“Edits”

  • Contains ‘Data’ and ‘Position’ per index
  • ‘Data’ values appear to be a type of removal or addition, as becomes clear from Terrain Manipulator data below.
  • ‘Position’ is a single large decimal value, either positive or negative.
  • Each possible Terrain Manipulator edit, has its unique ‘Data’ value. Always a single entry as a result!
  • Base parts edits however, can have varying amounts of the same ‘Data’ value, but this value can also differ!
  • 15000 entries total (indexed arrays, with count of ‘BufferSizes’)

Some ‘Data’ counts from creative save

Data Count
-41 2
-105 4
-9 4
127 55
31 67
57 1
9 33
16 6
25 2
15 55
32 1
sub-Total 230
0 14770
Total 15000

Terrain Manipulator ‘Data’ values in ‘Edits’

Deleting terrain, always round shape, 3 sizes

Shape Data value
Small 0
Normal 32
Large 96

Adding terrain, round or square shape, 8 sizes, 5 materials

Base Rock Mountain Underwater Cave
Shape Size Data value Data value Data value Data value Data value
round 1 1 2 3 4 5
2 17 18 19 20 21
3 33 34 35 36 37
4 49 50 51 52 53
5 65 66 67 68 69
6 81 82 83 84 85
7 97 98 99 100 101
8 113 114 115 116 117
square 1 9 10 11 12 13
2 25 26 27 28 29
3 41 42 43 44 45
4 57 58 59 60 61
5 73 74 75 76 77
6 89 90 91 92 93
7 105 106 107 108 109
8 121 122 123 124 125

Some random data:

Wooden Floor L: 9 x 111 on top flat terrain
9 x 15 sunk half into hill
16 x 31 cover hole, sunk both side edges
15 x 31 pretty much same spot, but placed from opposite side (180 rotation)
Wooden Floor S: 4 x 79

Hmmm, varying data values as well as different amounts possible for same item. Always a multiple of the Data value it turns out to be though.
This is going to take a while … :frowning:

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So… if I edit my base(s) to remove terrain altering building parts, does that now permit the terrain to return (eventually) or does the altered terrain remain a permanent part of that base area regardless?
If I delete a base, does that clear the allotments for terrain edits I had for that base
or
do they remain until age eventually returns the terrain to pre-base appearance, as apparently does occur.

I build on stilts generally but sometimes I have 1 or 2 terrain alterations due to building parts (sometimes existing & sometimes demolished).
I’d like to know where I stand following alterations or deletions.

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Well in a panic I went around and deleted nearly all my bases bar two, down from twenty to two and my base parts are still not clearing terrain so, to answer your question, deleting seems to have no effect and I’m wondering now if it’s bugged :thinking:

Thanks for the breakdown @DevilinPixy it does help somewhat with understanding the edit limit, hopefully can make sense of the new terrain edit restrictions though having gone back and cleared my bases I’m even more confused now :joy:

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I’m not sure if this is of use or interest but I’ll tell my tale anyway…
A long time ago when the Atlas had just Risen following a couple of glitchy non-loading bases in the Etarc Hub, I built a simple underground base and took off on some big adventures, (which I recounted here).
When I returned, I found my base had filled in, as had a persistent accidental grenade crater near my portal. Must have been the cache deleting ancient history due to my many, many warps and explorations.
So, I relocated and built another almost identicle base on a new planet.
Again I set off on an epic voyage and yet again upon my return I found my base filled in.

It’s my theory that disturbed terrain is only remembered for a certain amount of time and that many warp load screens and loading different biomes helps wipe deeds of the past.
Add to this the need to teleport to recently deleted bases one final time to clear the teleporter memory, I’m hoping that the Terrain Edit counter can similarly be reset.
Not sure if this made sense…

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Yes. I think @DevilinPixy was pointing that out. There seems to be no way to reclaim it. You would think it would especially since it refills over time as @Mad-Hatter pointed out.

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I think the issue with deleted base appearing in teleporter has been fixed, hasn’t happened on my most recent disassemblies

I have heard many experiences of terrain returning, growing back, filling up underground builds and alike. I have personally not experienced this at all, even though at some locations I had hoped for it to happen due to mistakes made.

Let me take my Outback (vehicle) base for example. When I first started building a base there, I wasn’t happy about the result, so I rolled back my save to a point where hardly any edits were made, besides some changes to the terrain, flattening it. Not too bad, but I prefer to not have edits at all and then build my base. I had even removed my Base computer to start all over, waited for about a week, attempted various ways to get the terrain to fully regenerate to its original state. Yes, I am picky about this, but I think you can’t really blame me for this either, knowing the possible consequences. Had to remove traces from my save for this initial attempt as well, like the teleport location and a couple other things. The terrain just never regenerated! With the knowledge I had back then, I knew I could do a full terrain removal with a save edit, but this is an all or nothing kind of deal. I do not know enough to remove specific edits, I tried though. These edits are not conveniently stored PER base and not enough detail on the format is known to figure out which entries require removal to have affect on just a single base.

After a week, I just did not want to wait anymore. It wasn’t too bad though, just flattened a bit, so I started building a new base. Along the way, I made a couple mistakes, as sometimes the game likes to place an extra part, or place a part at an unexpected location. It happens, but I was sad, as I had a lot of work done, sometimes complicated to accomplish (trickery), and saved without noticing the mistake(s). Once more I had hoped it would resolve itself, as I had heard about so many others experiencing terrain to return. Not me, not at my base, why would it? I am truly OCD, especially when it comes to unwanted/unneeded terrain edits.

My base. Notice the lighter green flattened terrain in front, left by my first attempt. Also notice the hole on the left back side.

I found this hole due to a misplaced floor, after having saved a lot of work, not willing to roll back.

More floor pieces having left a trace.

This is what I hope I/we can figure out. As you can see in my examples above, we have to get lucky to run into what most consider a bug, to see the terrain magically grow back. This has never happened to me, with my base being there for a long time now. So the building that caused these edits, sticks after removal. No way to undo these edits at all, so clearly these edits remain saved, they remain permanent.

In my case, the edits from my initial base attempt remained, after completely deleting the base and removing some additional traces in my save file a normal player would not be able to do so without a save editor.

As for age of edits, even though there is an array of data stored with the TerrainEdits called BufferAges, its function is still not quite clear. It appears to be based on location instead, not some sort of stored time. I have made edits during my testing to see them added to the BufferAges with value 0, then if I move further away, it added them with a value 1. Making edits near previous location again, started adding them back to BufferAge 0 again. It would require further testing to fully figure out, but if I were to guess, these are specific chunk/sector values within a region of BufferAnchors (position) linked to GalacticAddresses. All of these appear to be indexed arrays, linked together within the main TerrainEdits data. If there is any ‘aging’ involved, it is more than likely only having an effect on TM edits.

It seems clear that the code knows which values are actual Terrain Manipulator edits, and which are not. It is unclear if an edit caused by a building part, changes after removal of said building part. I suspect it does not change at all, with what I have seen happen to my base. This is something I should be able to verify though. I could also verify if placing a removed part back again, results in an additional entry. I am pretty sure this is the case though, resulting in additional stored entries that may not even be required to have the same result. Basically each action is just going to be stored, whether needed or not. Making mistakes to correct these, just results in extra entries.

I am also curious to find out if a part that has the ability to alter the terrain, still results in an entry when no terrain is actually removed. I doubt this to be the case, but it would not amaze me to find at least a single entry. We have all experienced the fact that building something up in the air, can still remove the foliage below, while not actually altering the terrain, right? Does the same happen when you place another floor above it, functioning as a roof? Do these parts still have an entry regardless?

A short quick test I did was floor tiles in different locations with different amounts of terrain required to be removed. Each single floor tile does result in the same ‘Data’ value entries, for example 111, but a varying multiple of them. A different spot, resulted in a different ‘Data’ value with multiple entries, for example 31. This amount of entries it creates, appears to be related to the amount of terrain removed. A TM appears to always have just a single entry with a specific Data value, see table in my previous post. A floor tile has so far resulted in 9 to 16 entries. I have no clue however what makes the ‘Data’ value itself change, complicating my research as something is happening internally inside the code.

All-in-all, it requires further testing to know more. Whether aging is involved is unclear and hard to figure out when testing. Testing is usually done in a short span of time, focusing on direct changes, rolling back a save, try something else, see the difference, to draw conclusions. There could possibly be ‘looping’ involved as well. Something I might expect to happen with the TM, making many changes to at some point overwrite the first change again. Even in-game experience can be hard to draw conclusions with, especially with bugs/issues involved. Terrain growing back for some players, is a good example. I have personally not travelled to new systems as of late, even though I tried in the past, to see if it would affect altered terrain. Others do appear to have a different experience doing so.

I will do some more testing, to attempt to figure out at least a couple more things. We will be able to get a general understanding of what is going on. We may however never know the full details, unless someone is willing to dive in really deep. I have already gone deeper than I may have wished for. I’d rather play and see Hello Games fix the issues and come up with better solutions. They did say to have been working on ways to undo terrain alterations. This is exactly what we need, or many would wish for. Hard to do right though, as I can understand the implications. I am thinking of some sort of Ray Trace solution, allowing us to aim at a building part, to undo the edits that came with it, or undoing the stored change you aim at when looking at a hole in the ground. Possibly making the exact edit visible somehow to make it easier to decide if the result is going to be wished for. Not going to be easy to implement, I can tell you that … :wink:

Way longer a reply than I expected, time to get another mug of coffee :coffee:

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Epic sized reply but thanks for the info :wink: :+1:

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I made 2 bridges on my base, yours are very well made! Mind if I inspire myself from yours? (:

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oh boy, is this the maximum you can build? :scream:

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That’s about half the base shown in the picture. There’s also a range of buildings housing 30 large refiners, my teleport, and some other kit. Then there’s a large outdoor plantation of frost crystal, my storage units, and my exocraft pads.

So far, I haven’t had any difficulty building more. There’s just nothing else I need there right now.

Farm base - the other half.

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Another issue I would like to see resolved. I built a sea side base here. It was my second base, then I decided to delete it in favor of my current base. As you can see there is no trace of it ever having been there. The problem is that it still shows in my Portal list and I can still portal to this location. If this continues to show as a base when there is no base, could it still be having an affect on my base-terrain limit? I don’t really know about these things. Just wondering. :smile:

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To fully delete early NEXT bases, teleport to it one final time and it should delete from your teleporter list too.
That was part of a patch a little while ago.

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Yes. Just figured that out a little while ago. Took some time and a whole lot of portal use but, I am finally down to my actual bases which turn out to number 8…I had no idea I had started so many…:sweat_smile:.

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New info after additional testing

I created a brand new ‘creative’ save to do some further testing. Only one new Base was created and initialised, for which I made a backup to be able to compare as a clean state.

First I wanted to see if a ‘floor’ would have data saved in the ‘TerrainEditData’ when not resulting in changes to the terrain. I placed a wall on the surface, with another on top, to then place a floor snapped to the top end of the top wall. No data was generated at all. Then lower the floor to snap in between, basically at a single wall height. Once again, no data was generated at all. Once placed at the bottom, snapped against the bottom of the wall, resulting in flattening the terrain, new data was generated with about 9 entries in the ‘Edits’ sub array.

Next test was to see if removing this floor piece with entries in the save, would remove the data. Sadly enough, no changes were made to the data at all, keeping any entries it had created.

Now I could test if placing the floor back in the exact same spot would result in a new set of entries. I had previously snapped the floor, so getting it in the exact position again, by once more snapping, was not too difficult. I was happy to see it had not generated new entries. It basically used the previously created data instead. So removing a building part is not clearing the data that comes with it, but then replacing with the same building part in the exact same location, does not create its own new entries, but using what is already there.

Now to see if using a different part would result in new entries, even when in the same location of the removed floor. Sadly enough it does create new entries, but depends on the part used. I noticed that a large floor part, uses the same data as 4 small floor tiles, in this case. This makes some sense, as 4 small floor parts, has the same volume/area as a single large floor part.

Now wanted to test if deleting the base would remove the entries in ‘TerrainEditData’. So I placed several more floor parts, to be able to see a clear difference in the Terrain Edit limit indicator. Then deleted the base to check the save file. The base is removed from PersistentPlayerBases, as it should. However, the ‘TerrainEditData’ remains unchanged.

Now I could check if creating a new base elsewhere, would start with the same ‘limit’ already present, even though the previous base no longer exists. Well, … sadly enough, the limit for Terrain Edits, starts off where you left it. So it already includes the edits made with the first base, which has been deleted. The data is still there, so as expected, you get a jump start on the limit from any deleted bases.

Now I wanted to figure out what the actual Terrain Edit Limit is. How many edits can be made to the terrain before reaching this limit? A single floor parts usually result in 9 entries in the ‘Edits’ part, when just flattening already reasonably flat terrain. Placing a floor basically makes it sink in just a tiny bit, leveling the terrain below to be smooth. However, when placing floors this way, I didn’t see the limit indicator move fast enough. I did however notice how at some point, terrain did not get removed for some odd reason. I had not even reached the limit yet! Apparently some terrain does not allow removal at all. To be honest, I had so far not experienced this yet, possibly having to do with the latest update.

It would have taken me quite a while before reaching the limit, so instead I decided to use Cuboid Rooms. I placed one on top the terrain with a door, then placed another below and went from there. Each Cuboid Room I placed, now forced a maximal change to the terrain, being just below the surface, each basically resulting in 16 entries in ‘Edits’ I have not counted how many Cuboid Rooms I placed, but I went another level deeper and had to make it quite large. I saved just before reaching the limit on the indicator, then started adding more Cuboid Rooms until it showed the limit was reached. Reloaded the save, to then stop just before the next Cuboid Room would reach the limit. Then I placed a few small floor parts at the surface to actually reach the limit and check the saved data. The amount of entries should now be as close to the limit as possible.

The result of having reached the Terrain Edit Limit for this base, had a total count of 10,001 ‘Edits’. Knowing the following:

  • Each underground Cuboid Room resulted in about 16 ‘Edits’
  • 1 Cuboid Room I started with having 4 ‘Edits’
  • 3 small floors to reach the limit, likely 4 ‘Edits’ each.

Maybe I should have actually counted, but I assume I used 625 Cuboid Rooms total (including the one above ground). The limit in amount of ‘Edits’ is however obvious, basically 10k, where the last part that makes it reach the limit is fully ‘saved’, resulting in just 1 edit over 10k (10,001).

The total amount of ‘Edits’ that can actually be stored is exactly 15,000. I therefor assume the remaining 5k is the limit for Terrain Manipulator edits. This of course considering previous research with TM edits being stored in the same location.

Now I wanted to verify once more, if previous findings would still be the case. So I tried to build another base and see if I would have a new limit or not. The answer is a clear NO! You start with the limit already reached with the first base. Reloading or restarting the game makes no difference.

Does deleting the base that reached the Terrain Edit Limit, remove all the stored data? Once again, a clear NO! The base entry is removed to no longer exist, but the ‘TerrainEditData’ remains unchanged!

A big gaping hole was left though, almost certain to be filled in with terrain again over time. Oh and just after adding below image, I just noticed the Base Computer located right next to the hole at the bottom. The image was taken right after deleting the base. At the time, I had not noticed the ‘new’ Base Computer. Make note of that position, I will explain a bit more below.

The Base Computer, was actually placed right on top the Save Point before removing the base. I had taken the above image and moved away to create a new, but still empty base about 641u away. After seeing the Terrain Edit Limit for this new base was already reached, I walked back to the first, now empty base. Only then did I notice a Base Computer down below in the hole left. Now seeing it in the previous image, makes it even weirder, as in the image I took after return, has the Base Computer in a different spot even.

The Base Computer did show interaction, either ‘Claim Base’ or ‘Leave’. No option or way to delete it however. I never even placed it there in the first place!

Not being able to remove it anyway, I decided to do a last test. I flew to space, to warp to a new system, to check a Space Station for teleports. So I did, with the teleporter in this new system, only showing the new empty base. The first base which was deleted, did not show as an option to teleport to. I teleported back and walked back over to the old, now removed base, to see the Base Computer gone. No idea what that was all about. It freaked me out a bit, even more so now, considering I had not even noticed how it had moved another time before I found out.

Lastly, the image below to show the terrain already growing back.

Below an image of terrain that would not get removed at all. Similar to the terrain that could not be removed by the floors either (second image in this post). Of course you can see this being the case in the big gaping hole that was left as well. Not sure what that is all about…

To conclude:

Any terrain edits caused by building parts, will never be removed. Not even by deleting your base! The only solution is to use a save editor, knowing the format and how data is related (indexed).

Awaiting the promised solution Hello Games is trying to come up with :slight_smile:

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Can I just say, wow. Your mad scientist skills know no bounds. This answers a lot of questions and am now wishing I hadn’t deleted a dozen bases hoping it would restore my terrain edit limit :see_no_evil: oh well, guess I’ll just have to build a bunch more :smiley:

I’m hoping hello games solution is an option on base computers to remove terrain edits from specific bases or maybe the option to toggle on or off an overwrite system for base terrain edits.

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I hope so too, although it is likely complicated to get it done right. Most likely it will require an overhaul of how terrain edits are currently saved. It has been a while when they mentioned working on it. I hope they haven’t forgotten about it …

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That’s quite interesting.
As for the section of ground that remained in place, I’ve come across this before.
Typically deeper down, you can find a wavey layer of bedrock usually underneath the interactive layer. Sometimes it breaches the surface or rises very close…which is the lump you found.
This bedrock does not mine or alter in anyway but you can build through it. If you do build through it, you will notice that you are actually through the floor of the graphics (if you can wiggle the POV into a good vantage point.

As for your base computer magically appearing, perhaps this is a placemarker for the teleporter list which will vanish once the cache clears?

Hopefully they do something to fix the edits. I am however miles off it in both my games so it doesn’t affect me yet but it may at some point.

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I encountered a Base Computer in the wild early on and was not able to delete it. At the time, I thought it was there for the Legacy Bases. I built another Base Computer on a nearby hill. I did not realize that I was actually within the base building area of the Wild Base Computer. When I tried to delete the BC that I had placed, it would not allow me to. However, it did then allow me to delete the Wild BC. When I deleted the Wild BC, the one I had built also disappeared…very similar to what you experienced.

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I just finished reading your amazing post… and wwow.

Hello Games needs a Devilin Pixie !

:muscle:

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