Games and Game-Related old and new

General Discussion
2015

The problem is the international legal interpretation of “copyright” and “public domain”.

If you create an original intellectual property, you are allowed to claim copyright on it. Only you are allowed to sell it, and anyone who copies it can be sued.

There are, however, millions of ideas out there that are not copyright, and anyone is free to use them. They are known as “public domain”. You can’t sue someone for selling a public domain idea.

The difference between copyright and public domain can be complex, and I won’t go into an in-depth analysis. In general, public domain ideas have been around for a long time, and lots of people have used them.

If you, as a copytight holder, are made aware of someone using your copyright material without permission, and you do not take legal action to stop them, then there is a real danger that in the case of any further infringement, the courts may decide that you have chosen to allow your idea to become public domain.

You can lose your copyright by not enfocing it. And if that happens, then the intellectual property is not yours any more. Anybody can take it.

This is why big corporations stamp down hard on copyright or trade mark infringement. It may look like bullying, but legally, it’s survival.

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2016
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2017

I think you’re confusing copyright with trademark here. The two work somewhat differently. Trademark needs to be defended, because it’s a narrow application of something that may otherwise be in common use. When Sky sued HG over the No man’s sky title, that was a trademark issue, for example. Companies are extremely trigger happy when it comes to trade mark because every use they tolerate sets a precedent for the scope in which their trademark is valid. Copyright is somewhat different, as it refers to the distribution of a specific asset, and is therefore much more clearly defined in its scope.

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2018

With the greatest of respect, I don’t believe I am. As I said, the situation is complex, and I did not propose an in-depth analysis. For the sake of brevity and clarity, I was generalising, and I believe I made that clear.

I agree that corporations are very keen to enforce trade mark infringement. However, if you follow case law regarding copyright infringement of, say, song lyrics and melodies, or characters and plots in novels, you will find exactly the same principles and precedents applied - i.e. have other people used these lyrics before? Is this melody in common use? and, crucially, have the claimed copyright holders challenged these uses?

Also note that these are seldom the deciding factors - as I also said, there is a danger that the courts may decide… If you don’t challenge the infringement, you may weaken any future case.

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2019

I don’t think plot can be copyrighted, but you do indeed appear to be correct about the other examples.

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2020

As I previously said, the whole area is complicated, and I didn’t intend to write a thesis - added to which, my training is mostly in criminal law, which is different from civil / copyright law.

Nevertheless, it was always my understanding that plot could be copyright - the problem for the copyright claimant would be proving sufficient originality, innovation, and intellectually creative content. It’s very hard to think of a plot device that hasn’t been used before.

You have piqued my interest, and I will check.

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2021

I post this link several times without prompt, I am not passing on the opportunity to post it legitimately to a relevant conversation.

Here’s my two favourite Canadians talking about how they use a lot of copyrighted material without paying a penny.

The “Nirvana The Band The Show The Movie” movie is out soon and I cannot waaaaait, been getting amazing buzz at film festivals all year :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

Also watch Matt’s other movies, all very good. The Dirties, Operation Avalanche and Blackberry :waving_hand::+1:

2 Likes
2022

OK, Copyright…

In 1978, the makers of Star Wars alleged that the makers of Battlestar Gallactica had stolen substantial elements of the plot of their movie, and book “Star Wars Episode IV - A New Hope”. The case was eventually settled out of court, with the makers of Battlestar Gallactica paying compensation to the makers of Star Wars, and making substantial changes to the Battlestar Gallactica movie.

Some of the plot items complained of are listed below (taken direct from the Court of Appeal documentation)

Appellant Fox argued in its brief that a comparison of the two works discloses at least 34 similarities. For illustrative purposes only, we list 13 of the alleged similarities:

(1) The central conflict of each story is a war between the galaxy’s democratic and totalitarian forces.

(2) In Star Wars the young hero’s father had been a leader of the democratic forces, and the present leader of the democratic forces is a father figure to the young hero. In Battlestar the young hero’s father is a leader of the democratic forces.

(3) The leader of the democratic forces is an older man, displaying great wisdom, and symbolizing goodness and leadership, with a mysterious mystical ability to dominate a leader of the totalitarian forces.

(4) An entire planet, central to the existence of the democratic forces, is destroyed.

(5) The heroine is imprisoned by the totalitarian forces.

(6) A leading character returns to the family home to find it destroyed.

(7) The search by the totalitarians and the liberation attempt by the democratic forces are depicted in alternating sequences between the totalitarian and democratic camps.

(8) There is a romance between the hero’s friend (the cynical fighter pilot) and the daughter of one of the leaders of the democratic forces.

(9) A friendly robot, who aids the democratic forces is severely injured (Star Wars) or destroyed (Battlestar) by the totalitarian forces.

(10) There is a scene in a cantina (Star Wars) or casino (Battlestar), in which musical entertainment is offered by bizarre, non-human creatures.

(11) Space vehicles, although futuristic, are made to look used and old, contrary to the stereo-typical sleek, new appearance of space age equipment.

(12) The climax consists of an attack by the democratic fighter pilots on the totalitarian headquarters.

(13) Each work ends with an awards ceremony in honor of the democratic heros.

Court of Appeal documetation available here:

The substance of the Star Wars complaint is entirely plot-based. The fact that Battlestar Gallactica agreed to settle is, effectively, an admission of guilt.

3 Likes
2023

The introduction of “ideas” complicates things further. The idea of a high tech vertically mounted ring that you walk through and get teleported has been around for a long time, and lots of people have used it in fiction. In that regard it would seem like there is no grounds for any sort of enforcement. That said, the code that generates the image is very clearly work product that deserves protection. So I think the question comes down to how the image is created, not whether the images are similar. Sort of a form follows function argument.

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2024

There are a couple of intermingled arguments here. Either the teleporter model is a copyright property, or it is not. If it’s not, that’s the end of the argument. Ultimately, whether or not it is, would be a matter of fact, to be determined by the courts. If the model is copyright, then current legal thinking is that the copyright holder would be unwise not to defend that copyright.

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2025

Daumn! Campbell missed a real opportunity to sue Fox, then… :sweat_smile:

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2026

I agree that that’s pretty clear. My question is, what if they made their own model? Sure, it looks very much the same, but two models based on the same idea are going to look very much the same, and the idea is public domain.

So this ‘vertical ring transporter model’…is it actually the same model? Or did some guys using the same modeling tools to express the same idea come up with a very similar model?

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2027

I don’t think it has to be the same model - but to prove copying, the two models would need to be sufficiently similar to each other, and sufficiently different from other models.

As I said, if someone wanted to pursue it, that would be a matter of fact for the court to decide.

(edit)

In this case, the fact that the model was posted on the Once Human website marked “No Man’s Sky Teleporter” was a bit of a giveaway.

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2028

The object itself does make it different from most other forms of IP infringement.

It’s not just copying the design by rebuilding it, but using an asset that exists as a physicality in a digital form/package.

This is closer to stealing parts of a set from another studio and using it to shoot your own movie.

So it’s more than just copyright infringement but would also be considered digital property theft since it seems to use the actual model from the game files…

With an exercise bike stitched on.

And who knows where that came from, possibly a third party model site? And just slap doshed together. Someone is lying on their resume and has watched two YouTube videos in blender me thinks :wink:

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2029

LOL…that moves the defense from “coincidence” to “homage.”

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2030

I had a look at the Once Human web site, and they’re advertising for “creators”. You can earn in-game points and privileges by being one. I’m not entirely sure what a creator does - but if they’re offering rewards for people submitting in-game assets, that’s a huge incentive for people to steal stuff.

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2031
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2032

Stargate late 90’s

1000001483

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2033

Well, in fairness, Sean was up-front about basing much of NMS on classic science fiction. It does, however, put him in a difficult position when people start borrowing his stuff.

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2034

A fine line between homage and theft and they thread it nicely. Since they’ve housed themselves in the framing of “love letter to sci fi” they can get away with a lot by delivering the pound shop variety of off brand action figures. I miss pound shops. :frowning: I loved GI John, Robert Cop and the stoneage ninja tortoise.

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