Critique of the Relics Update from an "Armchair" Paleontologist

[Licoricemint]

I realize the Relics update has been out for awhile so some of you may be baffled by this critique, but I would like to express what I like and what I don’t like. First of all, I am NOT an actual paleontologist. I did enjoy the Walking with Dinosaurs BBC documentary series, Walking with Beasts (the rise of mammalian lifeforms after the dinosaurs), and Walking with Monsters (lifeforms prior to the dinosaurs). So I really wanted to recreate some of the skeletons of these lifeforms as accurately as possible.

Here’s my t-rex, probably the most iconic dinosaur of all time. This one I was really happy with.

Then I wanted to create a sauropod skeleton and I immediately ran into disappointment… there are not enough “herbivore” skulls. A lot of the skulls are carnivorous with large canines. The closest to a sauropod skull was the “blunted skull”. This is probably my main issue with the Relics update… not enough skull types. There is a basic plain rodent skull with like 8 different variations, but the variations are nothing more than different types of horns. I also wanted to make an ankylosaurus and a stegosaurus but there weren’t any decent skulls for them.

My next goal was a dimetrodon. The dimetrodon is a quadruped whose legs point outward parallel to the torso, like an alligator. But the quadruped skeleton only allows for quadrupeds whose legs point downward to the ground like felines, antelopes, deer, rhinos, horses, elephants, etc. This is my second issue with Relics, not enough body types.

Here is my triceratops. For some quadruped dinosaurs, like the triceratops, the hind legs are actually significantly longer than the front legs.

Here is my mosasaur. This one is decently accurate.

Here is my Australopithecus, which is a type of hominid. But I had to build him with a tail. When you build a skeleton, you have to include all the parts, you can’t omit any parts at all. I realize there is “stubtail” but I have not found that tail piece yet.

Lastly, here is my xenomorph, from the Alien movies. I did like how this one turned out.

Eventually I do want to build a “Museum of Natural History”. Despite my criticisms, the skeleton creation system is very good and I suspect the Relics update was a test run for a new procedural fauna creation system which we should see in the future. I do hope that Hello Games updates this “Relics” system at some point with more body types and more skull types.

[sheralmyst]

And my critique is because I can’t seem to make skeletons that make NMS critters. I would like one to match the butterfly critters and the beetles

[Polyphemus]

Hmm. Question: Why would we expect Earth’s evolutionary patterns to be exactly reflected on planets that are decidedly not Earth?

[Polyphemus]

@sheralmyst

. I would like one to match the butterfly critters and the beetles

Neither butterflies nor beetles have skeletons. They don’t make good fossils.

OK, a beetle has an exoskeleton of sorts - but it’s chitin, not bone. Very different survival characteristics.

(edit) correction - I said keratin - I meant chitin. Old age is a bugger.

[sheralmyst]

I know. But I still want them

[Polyphemus]

It’s one of those annoyances of archaeology - if you bury a body in neutral PH, reasonably aerated soil, after somewhere between a couple of hundred to a couple of thousand years, pretty much nothing will survive. If you bury it in an alkaline environment - say, chalk or limestone, the bones will be preserved, but everything else will disappear. If you bury it in an oxygen deficient acid environment, say, a peat bog, or deep forest litter, then skin and hair are preserved - but everything else is lost.

[Licoricemint]

Reply to Polyphemus:

Well, there is a phenomenon known as convergent evolution. Regardless of what planet you’re on, there will be predators and prey. Generally prey will evolve to outrun predators or they will evolve to be so large that predators won’t attack them. So even if two prey species aren’t genetically related, their body structures will have similarities.

[Polyphemus]

@Licoricemint

there is a phenomenon known as convergent evolution.

Here on Earth there is. As for the rest of the Universe, until we actually find extraterrestrial life, the jury’s going to have to remain out. Truth is, we have absolutely no idea.

It’s possible that Earth is very atypical. The Universe could be teeming with life that is utterly unlike Earth species. We just don’t know.

[toddumptious]

I was personally hoping by now we would have additional bones either through an update or via QS rewards or something.

There’s also a few bone variants that are listed, but afaik still completely unattainable or it’s so rare that after digging up 1000 bones I still haven’t found them.

One of those bones is pivotal and I have abandoned my Museum base until it’s available.

Which is, the bipedal tail bone that us Hoomans have. Without it, all our standing fellows need an actual tail as you pointed out in your initial post.

I haven’t actually looked into these missing bones in a few months. Does anyone know if they’ve surfaced or if there’s a knack to getting them?

Thanks for sharing your skele builds and your attempts to recreate our earth side Dino brethren.

I loved those Walking With… docs too <3

[jedidia]

@Polyphemus

Here on Earth there is. As for the rest of the Universe, until we actually find extraterrestrial life, the jury’s going to have to remain out. Truth is, we have absolutely no idea.

I’m kind of torn on this. On the one hand, evolution seems to provide a pretty solid template of the function of life, and its constituent parts. Even our brains are starting to make sense for the first time ever when analysing their structure through the lens of evolution (So far it was just always “AHA! This part must be for that, and this part is obviously for that, that would obviously be the best design!” Only to then find out “uh, no, that’s not how that works at all, this is quite a mess!”).

So I think studying evolution should give us a reasonable idea of what life on other planets must solve in order to survive.

And then, we have our solar system, a sample-size of one, which we have used for centuries to derrive entire theories about how solar systems must form and how they are likely composed, only for all of them to completely fall apart with literally the first planet we found outside of it.

So while I do think that evolution can give helpful pointers, we’re probably lacking the creativity to come up with the problems that life needs to solve, and the potential solutions based on local circumstances.

This is also because of the probably most misunderstood aspect of evolution: It’s a one-way street. Once a solution is established, it is less likely that another solution for that same problem will ever be evolved. Just because evolution landed on one solution doesn’t mean that there couldn’t have been hundreds of others that we might never think of…

@toddumptious

Which is, the bipedal tail bone that us Hoomans have.

The one that hurts like shit? Why would you want that??

[toddumptious]

All this has me thinking about a show I watched recently that goes into a lot of effort to showcase a planets eco system that seems to be incredibly symbiotic in nature.

It’s visual style and animation style is a mash up of Moebius and Studio Ghibli.

It’s called Scavengers Reign, it never got picked up for a second season but the creators already have a new show out that is also very good, but totally different (Common Side Effects, it’s about a cure-all wonder fungi and the people who want to stop it/profit from it; lots of your big pharma/FBI/cia conspiracies in one place)

Although Scavengers Reign never got renewed, it had the benefit of your typical season one cliffhanger in that, it was written with an uncertain future in mind as most season one finales tend to be. It’s those season two onwards finale cancellations that are the hard ones to take.

[Polyphemus]

@jedidia

potential solutions based on local circumstances.

That’s more the kind of thing I’m thinking of. With “local circumstances” being rather more out-of-the-box than we’re normally encouraged to think of.

So imagine, for instance, that there is abundant life in the universe - but it depends on chemical compounds that can only form when an ammonia/methane atmosphere is heated above 700 degrees celsius, at pressures exceeding 500 bar.

Such conditions could be found on many gas giants - but we would never know about it. That kind of chemistry doesn’t exist on Earth - and we could never survive such conditions.

[sheralmyst]

So what you really want to find are the remains of Korvax, Gek, VyKeen and Travellers.

[toddumptious]

I had an evolution of gek display idea, with a proto-gek side by side with remains of a Gek First Spawn. One has a tail, one doesn’t, basically.

Was also considering a quadruped distant ancestor or perhaps they flew? Maybe a hologram of those gek-like fauna as an artist depiction of what the proto-gek may have looked like etc.

Id love to dig up some Korvax remains but they are really rare because the Autophage already looted and repurposed all the good bits

[Timsup2nothin]

@Licoricemint

Regardless of what planet you’re on, there will be predators and prey.

Based on a sample of one this is a very sweeping conclusion.

[toddumptious]

@Timsup2nothin

Based on a sample of one

Yeah but god made us number one cos he loves us the best

(Totally butchering a song lyric from Ben Folds)

[AdaRynin]

Hmm. Take our sample size of one, Earth: the vast majority of animals today are invertebrates, amoeba, and single cells… animals with bones are not even common on Earth. They are just the most common to be preserved.

If another praehistoric being had survived stepping out of the ocean with lungs, all of today’s animals would be different. Maybe several alternative evolutions died out for some random reason (got hit by meteorite, ate something wrong, inhaled a bug while biking and called it quits, wasn’t in the mood for lungs anymore because it was too friggin cold…).

Having a shell or bones is probably useful to walk on land. But e.g. if it had been an arthropod or a jellyfish or a worm that evolved a crazy way to survive on land, ten thousand different animal types could have descended from it, no? And different beings would be the intelligent ones today doing archaeology. And they all would think bilateralism with two arms and two legs was absurd…

PS: or a starfish! Imagine you descended from a land-walking starfish. We could all look so cool!

[sheralmyst]

[Timsup2nothin]

There are a lot of ways to describe Patrick…”looking cool” does not head the list.

[sheralmyst]